Interview with Rabbi Yair Dreyfus on the Jewish settlement of Efrat refute certain stereotypes about Jewish settlers and Palestinian Islamists (or at least some of these communities) interview published in the journal A2 No. 11/2011 , here on the blog you can read the unabridged version of the interview.
Efrat is a large Jewish settlement in the West Bank south of Jerusalem, which stretches the length of ten miles from the Palestinian town near Bethlehem to Hebron. Now it is around 8,500 Jewish settlers - religious and secular. Some live in comfortable modern houses with modern infrastructure. Rabbi Yair Dreyfus, however, live in the northernmost part of the settlement, which consists of a simple container dwellings that are surrounded by electronic fences and guarded high concrete guard tower. I first met Rabbi Dreyfus's just here, but we agreed to another meeting a few days later in a Jerusalem cafe. When we started our conversation, sparked a storm out there. Total matched it with topics about which we talked about - the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians and Jewish settlers role in it.
In the view of many unrelated roots present conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, as with religion, rather as with politics and nationalism. It is well for you this conflict more secular than religious?
Yes you are right - at the beginning of the clash with the secular Zionist movement and Arab, each party sought to do the same territory. But today, religious spirit in the present conflict, much more. Consider the need for Islam - Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran's policy ... And what about Egypt today? (Which just started anti- riots) is the motivation to overthrow Mubarak's secular or more religious?
in Islam in recent decades the rise of religious fundamentalism, but it did something similar has taken place even in contemporary Judaism, especially in the religious Zionist community?
Yes - even for us today is more a religious conflict. And I think that we are focusing more on nationalism rather than humanism. We are all human beings and we have one Lord - Jews, Christians and Muslims. I personally I know many Arabs and I do not have a problem with them. And even if we do not need the same views on some things, because we do not fight, but we can live side by side. I know for example, Sheikh al-Džábárího from Hebron. I have grandchildren, he has grandchildren. He told us that he wants to be able to play together. We do so the next generation of fighters, but people who are able to communicate with each other. M
Új dream is to live together without fear. And I think that's fair. .. so what you say could be further evidence that the conflict is not so much religious as political rather ..
Yes, yes.
Do not you think that Jewish settlements are a problem for many Palestinians because they are built on their land?
That is incorrect. There's plenty of room for everyone. Look at the New-York, there are 6 million people live in the much smaller and many of them are Jews and Arabs out there who are able to live together. And here is far more places - from Metully (Israel's northernmost city) to Eilat (Israeli Red Sea port). And I think that the borders do not pose a problem. Look at the borders of Europe after World War II and how they look today. And in many places where the border remained officially, now you can go very smoothly. I was recently in the Czech Republic and I went to Bratislava and Vienna. Then I might have needed a passport, but now it there is no need at all. I think something similar is possible here in the Middle East. Need to look at northern Israel - there is a parallel series of Jewish and Arab towns and there are Jews and Arabs can live side by side without problems. And Arabs in Israel tend to live at a higher level than those living in Arab countries.
It is interesting to hear - of Israel is often referred to as a small island in the Jewish danger Arabian Sea ...
is part of my understanding of Judaism, it is not possible to conclude either physically or mentally. Instead, it should open up and communicate. And I know that a similar idea has even mentioned Shaykh al-Džábárí and that's the attitude that comes from the Koran. I understood this, that terrorism is not really Islamic, but it is contrary to the principles of Islam. What I am saying here is also trying to teach in the yeshiva. I am trying to teach my students live only with those whom you love, but also those to whom you have a reservation.
is positive to hear such words from a Jewish settler because they like the word "Islamist" equipping people mainly Muslim radicals, and the term "Jewish settler" to recall the many personalities format Baruch Goldstein, Rabbi Levinger, Rabbi Meir Kahane ... (Goldstein, a settler killed in Hebron in 1994, many Muslims, Levinger was a radical settler leader in Hebron, and Rabbi Kahane led until his death, ultra-radical Kach party) You refuse as vehemently as a radical Islamist radicals - ie. perceive that their actions as contrary to Judaism?
I view them very hard - and I think really the opposite of Jewish values. Certainly, if the war should be fought. But if you use a weapon against the innocent, it's deplorable. I think the vast majority of Israelis are not extremists. Nor sympathize with the radical right, even with the radical left.
But when you look at today for example, Israeli Foreign Minister Lieberman, who has always been considered a radical right-wing and some other policies may impression that the radical right in Israel is on the rise ...
Yes, this impression may cause the media, but when you compare the media and the real image of Israeli society, we find that they are heard especially by those who shout the most. And in the Israeli media is screaming a lot ... The true picture of Israel I think is quite different.
What is your opinion on the peace process of the nineties and its aftermath?
For that I have always had strong reservations. We leave rhetoric of separation of Israel and "West Bank" and realize that the Oslo peace process did not lead to anything good. In the end, bring more violence and more hatred. In fact, we can see that Jews and Arabs can live side by side on the "West Bank" and beyond. But now in many places the concrete wall and cause bad feelings at all. On both sides of the wall, broken families and live their life very complicated. I think the wall is not a solution and creates hatred. The Berlin Wall was also, but then came perestroika, and fell. I think that what happens here just because we can live side by side in the civil principle. We Jews are here, the Arabs are here and we just left to live side by side. It is not clear to me that it could take years more before the situation znorma
Lisa. There are still a settler movement Gush Emunim, which since the seventies based on a West Bank religious settlement? What do you think the religious settler movement, Erez Shalom (Country level) about Rabbi Menachem Froman, a coalition of religious settlers who want to have good relations with its Arab neighbors?
Gush Emunim as an ideological movement exists only on paper. As for Rabbi Froman (who is currently battling a serious illness) and Erez Shalom movement, so it is very new thing. Me personally is near - they want more dialogue, and also I want.
What do you think of Hamas?
Hamas is a complicated matter. On the one hand, there are many its members are authentic Muslims, on the other hand, are often the terrorists. With Hamas now is to be fought, but if it renounces terror will be far more trustworthy partner than it is today, Mahmoud Abbas and his Palestinian Authority.
As we look at Sharon's evacuation of Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip in 2005?
It was a bad move. Settlers from the Gaza Strip were our friends. Moreover, I do not think that the evacuation would not help the peace because Hamas in the Gaza Strip evacuation radical. But It is more than five years, so what can we do now .. I sincerely hope that other solutions are not one-sided.
What is your view on the differences and connections between Jews ultraortodoxními (Haredi - nesionistického followers of traditional Judaism), and Orthodox Jews (Religious Zionist)?
There is a difference between older and younger generations of Haredi. They are far more modern in many ways different from their ancestors from Eastern Europe who lived in closed communities and were generally very department and "neizraelští. They look like today is still well outside still, but otherwise it's been basically the Israelis. However, I must say that it is not easy being a Jew and ultraortodoxním also be open.
As we look at the ultra-Orthodox antisionisty like to satmarské hasidim (they are one of the largest Hasidic groups), or the organization Neturej card?
Satmarských Hasidim in Israel a few, most of whom live in the U.S. and globally there are anti-Zionist Haredi only a few thousand, and they have virtually no effect. Personally speaking I have no problem with any of our family, Haredi and even a few followers of Judaism ultraortodoxního.
Who is your favorite rabbi?
That's a tough question ... My biggest inspiration is probably Rabbi Kook.
Rabbi Kook and his older son?
(Avraham Kook lived from 1865 to 1935 and advocated a moderate form of religious Zionism. His son Zvi Yehuda Kook, from 1891 to 1982 is popular among religious settlers and was much more radical)
older, older!
you see a big difference between them?
Yes, they are almost opposites. The elder Rabbi Kook we see a very broad and universalistic character of his ideas. It was a great teacher and I was in yeshiva Givat Dagan trying to pass his work. He gives us many answers to questions related to why we live today in Israel. It does not say anything openly, but basically to address the many
and problems with which we meet here today. This applies not only Jews but also other nations, like the Arabs. Which is your favorite political party?
National Religious Party - Mafdal, elected by a majority of religious Zionists, but that over time various splits and essentially in its original form disappeared.
Today, when you vote and which party to decide - if it's not a secret?
It is not always the same choice - we have a choice too often (laughs). Wears a yarmulke this type (Rabbi for a moment off his braided head of Kipu - a symbol of religious Zionism). But it really is not so much a political symbol that you like it rather belongs to a group of Jews.
Thank you, Rabbi!
30th in Jerusalem January 2011
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